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09/21/2010

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Joe Duffus

Mr. Whitsitt,

The Westminster Confession says this: "VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them."

Even granting your point about Scripture not "containing" the full mind of God, we do still believe that some things are knowable through the "clear preponderance" of Scripture, do we not?

I do agree that your more vocal critics are guilty of creating a "straw man argument," over your paraphrased views. Yet, I cannot help wondering whether your beliefs about Sola Scriptura being "dead," are based not on a dispassionate contemplation of Biblical discernment generally, but instead as a foundational point towards arguing very specifically on behalf of gay ordination, gay marriage, etc.

Some American judges are rightly faulted for reasoning after the fact -- that is, for starting with a desired verdict they wish to reach and trying to contrive a legal opinion to justify that conclusion.

I daresay those traditionalists within the lay community of PCUSA who were alarmed by your comments believe this to be the real agenda here. Are they wrong to think so?

Landon Whitsitt

I must admit, your honesty about what you believe my position to be is both refreshing and shocking. Either way, it is helpful. Thank you for allowing us to cut to the chase, and in honor of your forthrightness I will address what I understand your main question to be first:

No, sir, I argue specifically for the full inclusion of our LGBT sisters and brothers *because* of what I find in the scriptures, not despite it. If you do believe me (and I hope that you do), what you are left with is the real reality that someone claiming to be a faithful follower of Christ understands that relationship very differently than you do. I do not have an ulterior motive that must be exposed.

To your secondary question:
I do not disagree that (as the Confession says) some things are clearly knowable. Where the Confession and I differ however is whether or not our relationship with God in Christ is dependent on us knowing, believing, or observing anything in scripture. I do not believe it is. To establish humanity knowing, believing or observing something as a requirement for entering a relationship with Christ is an affront to the sovereignty of God, in my opinion.

However, even that sort of discussion is secondary to the real point I've been trying (perhaps poorly) to make all along. You have asked me to either agree or disagree with a paragraph from a confession in the same way that I assume you would like me to agree or disagree with various portions of the Bible. And, while I understand that impulse, would you also ask me to agree to a few passages from the Scots and Secodn Helvetic Confessions which, in no uncertain terms, state that women are forbidden from ecclesiastical duties such as preaching and the administration of sacraments? I'm sure you would not. And so, we are left with a conundrum: What do we do when we are sure that we have misunderstood in the past?

I acknowledge that you do not think we have misunderstood on some specific points, but I hope that this gives you some insight into my argument with the Sola. In my opinion what we should be emphasizing is Solo Verbo Dei (The Word of the Lord alone), while using scripture as the first point on a journey (Prima Scriptura) through tradition and communal discernment to ascertain it.

grace and peace to you.

Joe Duffus

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.

I’m actually hoping to stay away from the specific issue of gay marriage, ordination or other facets of what you term “full inclusion,” and focus instead on the general question of whether scripture alone is our guide to understanding God’s will. I raised that specific issue only to sharpen the question of asking why you believe as you do. But I’ll willingly accept your statement that you believe you’ve found it in scripture itself.

My purpose is to understand your objection to so basic a reformed tradition pillar as Sola Scriptura. As I understand it from my limited research, this doctrine was originally a reaction to the Catholic policy of interpretation being the province of the trained clergy alone, and a rebellion from the Catholic Church’s attempts to twist scripture to its own ends. We both, as Presbyterians, can certainly agree there.

You may have to explain for me what you mean by “Solo Verbo Dei.” My first guess is you meant just those quotations in the Bible attributed directly to the Lord, but that seems an awfully pinched – not to say highly abridged – conception. I don’t want to misstate your position, but if the Lord’s direct word alone is the only thing you would consider sacrosanct in its interpretation, that raises huge questions for me. Since much of what we know of Jesus is of his actions as reported by his followers, then it’s unquestionably true that we cannot really know Him except as reflected in the words of the Gospel writers. But if that is you emphasis, then Paul and the Gospel writers bear no special credibility as deliverers of God’s word. Anything not “Verbo Dei,” is then hearsay, open to question and mere commentary.

Help a brother understand. I don’t think I do.

Landon Whitsitt

I think you're approaching what I'd like to rest my case on, namely, that the context of and the need for Sola Scriptura (especially as it's currently understood) has past. In order to accomplish something closer to what the Reformers intended a shift in focus is required.

Short answer: no, I'm not referring to the portions of scripture that are attributed to the Lord. Rather, I'm trying to point toward the idea of Logos/Word of the Lord, a la John 1.

Long answer: I actually have a piece that I'm going to post here soon in hopes of furthering the conversation. If you wouldn't mind reading that and commenting, I'd appreciate it.

Joe Duffus

I await your next piece on the subject and in order not to distract you from it I will pose only those questions I hope you will address in your longer answer to come.

As I’m sure you know, anyone who claims there’s something closer to Logos than the totality of the Scriptures faces a serious crisis of credibility. What other thing is closer? What revelatory insight have we moderns acquired to supplant the 2,000 years of discernment we’ve invested so far? And by what arrogance can we suppose that the time for relying on the Scriptures alone has passed? Even if the answer to those questions involves reference to modern behavioral science or physical science, we have gained no understanding of the mighty “why” behind the “what” and “how” questions we are answering regularly through scholarship.

For example, just this week came news of a possible answer to the “how” of the parting of the Red Sea in Exodus. Sustained winds of at least 68 mph over many hours, properly directed in a shallower area of the Red Sea could indeed have parted the waters, we learned from scientists. But that certainly doesn’t answer why the Lord did so, and there is no place besides the Scriptures that does.

I realize that’s an over-simplification of what you mean to say, but at least it’s a timely example!

Tricia Dykers Koenig

Thanks for including Xan's post. To add another detail: One of the "practice[s] the confessions call sin" is "misconstruing intentions, words and actions" - an example of bearing false witness (Westminster Larger Catechism, 7.255)

It is common in debates on LGBT ordination for one speaker to explain how s/he comes to his/her commitment to inclusion BECAUSE OF the Bible, only to have the next speaker declare that anyone taking that position has thrown off the authority of Scripture. NONE OF US could be ordained if we applied the prohibition on all who have "refused to repent of any self-acknowledged practice which the confessions call sin."

Joe Duffus

Mr. Whitsitt,

have you completed that piece that you referred to in your last comment above? I was hoping to read a fuller statement of your idea of Logos/Word of the Lord, as it relates to this discussion about Sola Scriptura and biblical discernment.

Just wondering.

Adel Thalos

I want to, for a moment address your passing comment on what the reformers intended... Calvin made it quite clear that he believed and taught the full inerrancy of Scripture. I believe from the confluence of his statements that he would have agreed with the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy. Here are some of the quotes:

Institutes I, 149, “The unerring standard.”

Hebrews xxi, “The infallible rule of His Holy Truth.”

Minor Prophets, I, 506, “Free from every stain or defect.”

Psalms II, 429, “The inerring certainty.”

Psalms, v, ii. “The certain and unerring rule.”

Psalms iv, 480, “Unerring light.”

Institutes, II, 58, and III, 309, “The infallible Word of God.”

Catholic Epistles 131, “Infallible oracles.”

Calvin says, “The full authority which they [the Scriptures] obtain with the faithful proceeds from no other consideration than that they are persuaded that they proceeded from heaven, as if God had been heard giving utterance to them.” 392, Institutes vii, I

And Calvin’s words on II Timothy 3:16:

"Moses and the prophets did not utter at random what we have received from their hand, but, speaking at the suggestion of God, they boldly and fearlessly testified, what was actually true, that it was the mouth of the Lord that spake. The same Spirit, therefore, who made Moses and the prophets certain of their calling, now also testifies to our hearts, that he has employed them as his servants to instruct us. Accordingly, we need not wonder if there are many who doubt as to the Author of the Scripture; for, although the majesty of God is displayed in it, yet none but those who have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit have eyes to perceive what ought, indeed, to have been visible to all, and yet is visible to the elect alone. This is the first clause, that we owe to the Scripture the same reverence which we owe to God; because it has proceeded from him alone, and has nothing belonging to man mixed with it."

The words of Calvin on inerrancy were often so strong that he was sometimes included within the camp of those who believed all the words of the Bible were dictated by the Holy Spirit to the authors.

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